I've done 12-ship air assaults in the middle of the night in Afghanistan.

I've done troops in contact where they're, where really bad things are happening.

And that stuff was like a Sunday morning breakfast compared to that first day on the radio in Missoule.

You're shooting at everything.

My first missile that I shot in combat was against a bulldozer that was trying to erect defensive positions for ISIS.

You've got troops in the open. I have guys engaging a truck with a dish come mounted in the back of it,

driving down the street, shooting at the Iraqi army.

I've got Mad Max V-Bids that are driving around through the city.

Hey, welcome to another episode of The Spear, a podcast by the Modern War Institute at West Point.

I'm John Amble, editorial director at MWI, and The Spear is our platform to explore the combat experience.

In this episode, MWI's major Jake Morali speaks with Captain Lucas Gebhardt.

He is an aviation officer and a patchy helicopter pilot who has deployed multiple times to both Afghanistan and Iraq, including a couple years ago when he was a troop commander deployed to northern Iraq during the battle to retake Mosul from ISIS.

The pace and the complexity of that fight were intense, not only on the ground,

but also for the pilots flying above them and supporting the fight from the air. As he describes it,

if you took all of the engagements his unit was involved in during the year and a half he was

deployed in Afghanistan, that's about the same number they experienced in the span of a single

week while in Mosul.

It is a great conversation that offers a fascinating and really unique perspective on the

battle. But before we get to it, just a couple of quick notes. First, if you aren't yet

subscribed to the Spear, you can do so on Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, or your favorite podcast app.

And if you're enjoying the stories we feature, we would love it if you would take just a

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