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The Rich Roll Podcast

Anna Lembke, MD on The Neuroscience of Addiction, Dopamine Fasting & The Opioid Crisis

The Rich Roll Podcast

Rich Roll

Health & Fitness, Education, Self-improvement, Society & Culture

4.812.9K Ratings

🗓️ 23 August 2021

⏱️ 145 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

The relentless pursuit of pleasure always leads to pain. As the world evolves from one of scarcity to overabundance, we increasingly orient our lives around the pursuit of pleasure and avoidance of pain—an instinct that has produced a myriad of unprecedented types of addiction, and consequently, the pain we so desperately seek to avoid. To better understand this conundrum, I’m joined today by one of the world’s leading authorities on the neuroscience of addiction, Anna Lembke, MD. If that name sounds familiar, it’s likely due to her on screen presence in the Netflix documentary The Social Dilemma—a must-watch for anyone with a smartphone. Anna is a professor of psychiatry at Stanford University School of Medicine and chief of the Stanford Addiction Medicine Dual Diagnosis Clinic. She is widely published, has testified before Congress, and has authored two important books, Drug Dealer MD and her newest work, Dopamine Nation—a powerful primer on compulsive overconsumption in a world where feeling good has become confused with the highest good. This is an important and impactful conversation that explores: The nature, psychology, and neuroscience of addiction; the explosion in addiction in lockstep with technological advances; the opioid crisis & the fascinating history behind how we think about and treat pain; recovery protocols from 12-step & the latest science on psychedelic treatments; and how to manage & avoid addiction. To read more click here. You can also watch listen to our exchange on YouTube. And as always, the podcast streams wild and free on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Whip-smart and radically empathetic. I can’t underestimate the importance of Dr. Lembke’s work, and this conversation is a must listen for any and all who suffer from some form of addictive compulsivity, or know someone who does (which is pretty much everyone). Enjoy! Peace + Plants, Rich Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Transcript

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0:00.0

For so long, we've had this idea that addiction is a downstream consequence of some other

0:08.2

problem, but addiction is its own problem.

0:11.2

You can have a perfect life and get very, very addicted.

0:15.2

Because yes, it's true that childhood drama increases your risk for developing addiction.

0:20.2

Yes, it's true that addiction leads to isolation and that the antidote to addiction is social

0:27.1

connection in part.

0:29.2

But what is so important to understand is you can have the perfect childhood, the perfect

0:35.2

parents, the greatest social network, the best spouse, wonderful kids, and you can get

0:41.2

really, really addicted.

0:43.5

And that is so important for people to understand and also healthcare providers because everybody's

0:49.2

sort of looking for the reason behind the addiction, but there doesn't have to be a reason

0:54.0

behind addiction.

0:55.0

Addiction just can be on its own.

0:58.2

We live in a world in which we are saturated with dopamine and we live in a culture which

1:03.8

encourages us to pursue it.

1:06.1

But the ultimate and result of pursuing dopamine is to feel worse than when you started.

1:12.2

And this is really the central message.

1:16.2

People are more depressed, more anxious, more suicidal, and more addicted than they were

1:21.6

30 years ago.

1:23.2

And I contend that one of the main reasons is because of this relentless pursuit of pleasure

1:29.9

that essentially adjusts the dopamine levels, changes the hedonic pleasure set point to

1:36.6

make people and hedonic, meaning without joy.

...

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