do whatever you want. But don't do it in front of children. Is that so hard? Is it really

so hard? I'm not in favor of pulling anybody's sexual activities or kinks or whatever under

some kind of prohibition, but I don't think it's unreasonable to say, let's not expose

children to it.

Hello and welcome to Trigonometry. I'm Frances Foster. I'm Constantine Kissen. And this is a show

for you if you want honest conversations with fascinating people. Our brilliant guest today,

who we've been after for a long time, we're delighted to have him on the show. He's an American

journalist, Andrew Sullivan. Welcome to Trigonometry. Thank you so much. It's an honor to be here.

It's a great pleasure to have you on the show. We know who you are and we love your writing and

your work. A lot of our audience do as well. They've been asking us to have you on the show for a long

time. But for those who don't know you or your backstory, who are you? How are you where you are?

What has been the journey through life that leads you to be sitting here talking to us?

That's a wild and woolly story, really. I grew up and in East Grinsted.

I know. Well, you do? Yes. I live close to that. I play basketball there. Yeah. Oh, really? How wonderful.

Yeah. And I used to go to school in Red Hill for a bit.

You did? Well, I went to Rigate Grammar. I went to some beads.

Well, there you go. It's just a small... Right, let's end it. It's just exchange locations.

So I grew up there. I went to Rigate Grammar. I was sat next to Kierstama for five years.

And we notoriously fought each other every day on the 428 bus. He was a lefty communist. I was

I was a young Thatcherite and we went at it. That's another part of my story. Then I went to

got a scholarship to go to Oxford studied history. Got a scholarship to get a Harvard did

political philosophy there. And then I got an internship at the New Republic magazine,

...