From the historic campus of Hillsdale College in Hillsdale, Michigan, where the good, the true, and the beautiful are taught, nurtured, and honored, this is the Radio Free Hillsdale Hour, bringing the activity and education of the college to listeners across the country.

Yeah, so I think Franklin's legacy is twofold.

On the one hand, his writings and his life serve as kind of a model and an inspiration, not only for us today, but also he was an inspiration to the other

founding fathers. This is your host, Scott Bertram. Welcome to the Radio Free Hillsdale Hour,

part of the Hillsdale College Podcast Network. That was Dr. Colin Brown, a recent graduate of Hillsdale College's Graduate School of

Statesmanship. We talk with him a bit later on in today's program about his dissertation

research into Benjamin Franklin, revolutionary statesman. First, we're joined by Andrew

Claven, award-winning writer, screenwriter, media commentator. You might know him as the host

of the popular podcast on Dailywire.com, The Andrew Claven Show. And a whole lot more. His new book is

The Kingdom of Cain, Finding God in the Literature of Darkness. Andrew, thanks so much for joining

us. Yeah, it's good to be here, Scott. Thanks. I appreciate your time.

You take time in, I believe, the introduction to give us a better idea of your definition of evil as it plays a role throughout the kingdom of cane.

Let's start there.

What's Andrew Claven's definition of evil?

Well, I call evil the absence of love because what I believe is that our actual selves, our

created selves, are created for love, we're created for connection, we're created for

society, we're created for compassion, and that the absence of that is actually an add-on.

We frequently act as if good were the add-on. So we talk about the good of a fireman or the good

of a doctor or a good of a soldier. But all of those people are people who fight evil. If there

were no evil, those people wouldn't be necessary. And yet, I believe that even beneath that evil that seems like the primary fact of life,

I think love is actually the primary fact of life.

And it's the fact that we live in a fallen world is the fact that we're separated from it.

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