That line between genius and madness is very fluid.

You can sort of introduce alternative facts, as they say, and people believe them.

Stoicism is not a formula for you to be a better sociopath.

This is Gavin Newsom.

And this is Ryan Holiday.

This is an I-Heart podcast.

Guaranteed Human.

Ryan, thanks for being here, man.

Of course.

Sacramento, California.

You know this area well, don't you?

Not this area, because I, like, I think people don't understand that Sacramento is a bit

like Los Angeles, where to people who don't live there,

it's one place. Yeah, good point. But if you live there, it's a bunch of other, like,

I probably came downtown like 10 times of my life. Interesting. Until later, because I lived in the

suburbs of Sacramento. I mean, uh, so this was a big city, Sacramento back when you're young.

But it's like this is the town we would pass on the way to Arco Arena.

To watch the Sacramento Kings.

Yeah, or we would go down here to see Sutter's Ford or the railroad museum as a kid,

but you wouldn't actually do Sacramento, one, because it wasn't, I mean, it's done so much

amazing works or bringing it back to life, but also, like, California is like these self-contained suburbs and you live in your, in your suburbs. But you went, you must have, when you were a kid, you must have gone to the capital, right? You have to, part of the obligation of childhood here in California. Everyone does a fourth grade. They do a little tour. Yeah, yeah. How about the governor's mansion where we are right now? I've never been, I've never been here.

Interesting. I don't even think I've seen it. You've never seen it? I don't, I don't know. I don't. You didn't even driven by Ronald Reagan's holds. Here's when I would have seen it. They made you do your driver's tests, your driver's training in downtown because it was the only place that would have like four-way stops.

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