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question or comment, or find out more about the resources we shared. And now, today's podcast episode.

All right. Janice Spangler, how are you? I'm doing well. How are you? Really good.

Really excited about today's conversation.

You and I talked a week ago about one of the things that we wanted to cover at some point,

really you, because this is your field, is integral theory, which ties into this other

word, spiral dynamics or phrase by Ken Wilbur and I'm familiar with it and I think it's

deeply helpful to human beings especially folks who are trying to understand why people they

care about believe differently or frame differently within belief systems.

And then as people are deconstructing, the first model I came across was stages of faith by Fowler.

And it really is so limited to a specific arena.

And then getting into all these others, I think Ken Wilbur has done a gorgeous job

of taking the truth from a bunch of them and putting it into one map so that we can see how

all these things affect us. And today, Jana is going to help us run through some of this so we can get an introduction to integral theory.

Yeah, which I love and I love integral theory.

And it is extremely complex.

It gets really complex really quickly.

And so, you know, we could we could literally give like a four day seminar on this pretty easily. And so, you know, we could, we could literally give like a four-day seminar on this pretty

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