You're listening to Family Talk, the radio broadcasting division of the James Dobson Family Institute.

I am that James Dobson, and I'm so pleased that you've joined us today.

Well, welcome to another edition of Dr. James Dobson's Family Talk, the broadcast ministry of the Dr. James Dobson's Family Talk, the broadcast ministry of the Dr. James Dobson Family Institute.

I'm Roger Marsh, and on today's program, we're going to continue with part two of our everyday hero conversation with Dr. Bart Brock, who serves as vice chair of the board of directors here at the JDFI, and he's currently

interim president of the James Dobson Family Institute as well. On the last edition of Family Talk,

Bart shared his journey from corporate America to academia, but on today's program, we're going to

hear about his profound experience with grief after losing his first wife, Mary, following

what was supposed to be

a routine surgical procedure. Bart has written a book about his journey called The Widowers

Night, a Journey from Death to Life, which chronicles what he calls guttural grief and the

biblical principles that carried him through. Now, if you're walking through the pain of

losing a spouse or

facing another devastating loss right now, Bart's story offers powerful insights about leaning on

scripture, trusting God's faithfulness, and eventually finding renewal. His testimony

reminds us that even in our darkest valleys, God is still writing our story. So let's join Gary Bauer, our senior vice president of public policy here at the JDFI

for part two of our conversation with Dr. Bart Brock.

Well, welcome back to Family Talk.

This is our second show with our everyday hero, Bart Brock. We had a great

conversation yesterday, and I don't want to run out of time again. So let's just dive right

into it, Bart. Great. In all of this, Bart, when did you all become aware of Mary's medical

issue and then what ended up being the... you all become aware of Mary's medical issue,

and then what ended up being the surgery

...