Hi, everyone. It's Tristan. So this is going to be our last episode for a few weeks,

because we're taking July off. But that makes this a perfect time to explore our back catalogue.

Our episodes go back to 2019, but there is relevant today, as ever. If you want to learn about

cults and how we gain sovereignty over our minds, check out our conversation with culty programming

expert Stephen Hassan. If you want to learn about what civil war looks like in the digital age,

check out our conversation with Barbara F. Walter. And if you want to hear about social media's

big tobacco moment, listen to our conversation with Facebook whistleblower Francis Hogan.

You can find those episodes and much more at humaintec.com slash podcast. And with that, here we go.

Why isn't Twitter doing more to get bots off their platform? Why isn't Uber doing more to take

better care of its drivers? Well, what if they can't?

Venture capital backed companies like Twitter and Uber are held accountable to maximizing returns

to their investors. When they become public companies, they become accountable to maximizing

returns to shareholders. And they've promised Wall Street outsized returns, which means Twitter

can't lose bots if it would significantly decrease their user account. And Uber can't pay their

drivers a better wage if it competes with their profits. But what's the alternative?

What might it look like to design a funding and ownership model that incentivizes a technology

company to serve all of their stakeholders over the long term and especially the stakeholders

who are creating the value? I'm Tristan Harris. I'm Stephanie Lepp. And this is your

undivided attention. The podcast from the Center for Humain Technology.

And today in the show, we're talking with two experts on creating the conditions for humain

business and in turn for more humain technology. Mata Zapata and Kate Sassy Sassoon of Zebra's Unite.

Zebra's Unite is a member-owned cooperative that's creating the capital, the culture, and the

...