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Amicus | The Constitutional Truth At The Heart Of The DOGE Cases

Slate News

Slate Podcasts

News, News Commentary, Politics

4.66K Ratings

🗓️ 8 March 2025

⏱️ 64 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

Elon Musk’s moves at DOGE have been legally dubious from the start. And the more we learn, the more questions we have about this not-an-agency helmed by Musk –– who is apparently both in charge, and also not in charge. That’s why we wanted to talk with Kate Shaw, University of Pennsylvania law professor and co-host of the Strict Scrutiny podcast, about the very real constitutional issues raised by DOGE and Musk and his minions. Shaw spoke with Dahlia Lithwick about what is and isn’t legal about DOGE, and the impossible bind that creates for government lawyers tasked with defending his devastation of the government.  Want more Amicus? Join Slate Plus to unlock weekly bonus episodes with exclusive legal analysis. Plus, you’ll access ad-free listening across all your favorite Slate podcasts. You can subscribe directly from the Amicus show page on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Or, visit slate.com/amicusplus to get access wherever you listen. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Transcript

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0:00.0

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0:32.2

Hi, I'm Dahlia Lithwick. Welcome back to Amicus. This is Slate's podcast about the courts

0:37.3

and the law and the Supreme Court.

0:43.3

There is just so much that is deeply, legally, and constitutionally dubious about much of what we've seen in the last six weeks, but in particular about the activities of Doge.

0:55.9

I have created the brand new Department of Government Efficiency.

1:01.5

Goge. Perhaps you've heard of it.

1:05.5

A group of very intelligent, mostly young people, headed up by Elon.

1:11.6

That no one elected Elon Musk that we don't have kings, those are constitutional claims.

1:16.6

Elon Musk, who is in the gallery tonight.

1:21.6

Thank you, I'm working very hard.

1:46.2

It seemed that this was the week in which all the losing was going to start to catch up with Maga World from tanking the economy with ill-advised on again, off-again tariffs, to a speech before a joint session of Congress that was knitted together by lies,

1:52.7

to a great big loss at the Supreme Court on a really cruel and reckless effort by the Trump administration to shut down payments on foreign relief efforts that had already been carried out.

1:58.8

But none of that has stopped Donald Trump and Elon Musk from persisting in shutting down the many parts of the government they just don't like,

2:07.8

firing workers, terrorizing veterans and social security recipients, terrorizing the folks who rely on Medicaid.

2:14.9

We are, it seems, in a race to the finish between careless chaos agents

2:19.3

and the courts. One of the most vexing aspects of this situation is that Doge, as it has been

2:25.8

dubbed, is a non-agency headed up by Elon Musk, who is not in fact in charge of it. On Thursday,

2:33.7

President Trump apparently gathered his cabinet with Musk also in attendance, naturally,

...

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