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Amicus | Sneak Preview: An Escalating Constitutional Crisis

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Slate Podcasts

News, News Commentary, Politics

4.6 • 6K Ratings

🗓️ 18 March 2025

⏱️ 10 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

In this urgent extra episode of Amicus,  host Dahlia Lithwick and Slate's senior writer Mark Joseph Stern discuss the unfolding constitutional crisis triggered by the Trump administration's defiance of a court order to halt flights carrying Venezuelan migrants to be delivered to El Salvador’s so-called Terrorism Confinement Center - a vast foreign prison  that could  be described as a labor camp.  Lithwick and Stern explore the timeline of events that unfolded in Federal Court Judge James Boasberg’s court this week, and on planes bound for El Salvador. Next, they try to parse the legal arguments put forth by the Justice Department, claiming apparently boundless power for President Trump to render anyone he deems a gang member. Finally, they discuss why the Trump administration has chosen this particular constitutional hill to die on, and how far Chief Justice John Roberts might be prepared to go along with it.  This episode is member-exclusive. Listen to it now by subscribing to Slate Plus. By joining, not only will you unlock weekly bonus episodes of Amicus—you’ll also access ad-free listening across all your favorite Slate podcasts. You can subscribe directly from the Amicus show page on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Or, visit slate.com/amicusplus to get access wherever you listen. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Transcript

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0:00.0

Hi, I'm Dahlia Lithwick. Welcome back to Amicus. This is Slate's podcast about the courts,

0:11.5

the law, and the U.S. Supreme Court. It is Tuesday, March 18th on the fourth day of a, I think,

0:19.2

genuine constitutional crisis that began to unfold midair on Saturday night when Judge James Bosberg on the federal district court in D.C.

0:29.7

ordered the Trump administration to turn around deportation flights to El Salvador, carrying Venezuelan migrants.

0:37.4

And the administration actively refused to

0:41.0

comply in open defiance of a court order. By Tuesday morning, the president was calling for Judge

0:47.6

Bosberg to be impeached. Chief Justice Roberts responded around noon on Tuesday, writing, quote,

0:55.7

For more than two centuries, it has been established that impeachment is not an appropriate

1:01.5

response to disagreement concerning a judicial decision.

1:06.0

The normal appellate review process exists for that purpose, end quote.

1:12.8

So we are coming to you with this extra episode of amicus, because while events are moving quickly, the courts are moving at well,

1:17.9

the speed of law, which means there's an awful lot to unpack, a timeline to try to pin down,

1:24.0

and some big questions that will not wait till Saturday in what definitely does not feel like, quote, the normal appellate review process.

1:32.7

The government had a deadline of noon today, Tuesday, to answer a whole bunch of questions from Judge Bowsberg, joining me now to figure out whether those questions were answered.

1:43.3

And what it all means is Slate, senior writer, Mark Joseph Stern, quarterback on team jurisprudence here at Slate. Hi, Mark. Hi, Dahlia. And happy constitutional crisis day to you.

1:54.6

Happy constitutional crisis week, possibly month, maybe a year. Let's see. Hey, I think we should start with just a timeline

2:03.0

because it's important to lay out the facts that prove, I think, fairly clearly that we are

2:10.0

now in the midst of a textbook constitutional crisis. Let's be clear maybe before we even do that,

2:16.2

the Justice Department's position continues to be that even parts of the timeline are classified.

2:22.6

On Saturday, it seems that the Trump administration began deporting Venezuelan migrants under the Alien Enemies Act of 1798, accusing hundreds without showing any evidence of belonging to the Transdaeragua

2:38.0

gang. The ACLU promptly sued them in federal court at 6.48 p.m., still on Saturday,

2:45.6

federal district judge Bozberg held an emergency hearing at which he determined that the Trump administration could not go around using the Alien Enemies Act.

...

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