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Hello and welcome to the Americano podcast, a series of discussions about American politics,

life and culture. My name is Freddie Gray. I'm the deputy editor of The Spectator.

This week, I did a Spectator TV section with the Fox News host Tucker Carlson. And I thought

Americano listeners might enjoy hearing a longer version of the interview. I started by asking a question that a lot of

people have been asking, which is how does he respond to the allegation that he is a Russian spy?

With a chuckle. But what's interesting is the presumption in the United States is that it's, you know, terrible to be an

asset of Russia, but entirely acceptable to be an asset of Ukraine. And many, of course, in Washington

are the president's own son worked for a Ukrainian company. And the president himself was deeply

imaged in the internal politics of Ukraine when he was

vice president. And of course, still today. And I'm not sure why that's better. You know, no one in the

United States ought to be an agent of a foreign power or promoting foreign interests at the expense of

America's interests. I mean, in a democracy, it's very simple. The government exists to serve the people

who put it in power by voting. And your foreign policy ought to reflect that, which is to say your

foreign policy ought to serve the interests of the country. Now, if it's ancillary effects or improve

the lives of others, then that's certainly great and virtuous. But if its primary goal is to serve the interests of other countries

or their populations, then it's by definition of legitimate. I mean, that's the, you know,

that's the role of church groups and NGOs. And, you know, there are plenty of humanitarian

organizations. But the U.S. military, the United States Department, the White House, the U.S.

...