There are many ways we can lose our democracy, but the most worrisome way is through political violence.

You see, because the political violence is what would make the democratic backsliding you're so used to hearing about irreversible.

On this week's more to the story, University of Chicago political science professor, Dr. Robert Pape.

We examine the rise of what he calls violent populism in the U.S.

And why President Trump's January 6th pardons could be the most consequential decision of his second term. Stay with us.

This is more to the story. I'm Al Letson. It's been five years this month since insurrectionists invaded

the nation's capital and a year since President Trump pardoned them. Since then, the country has witnessed

a number of violent acts targeting politicians, legislators, and activists, both Democrat and Republican.

The rise of political violence in the U.S. is real,

and something my guest this week studies extensively.

University of Chicago political science professor, Dr. Robert Pape,

is one of the nation's leading experts on American political violence.

He has set himself apart by conducting deep research on the violent

actors themselves, where they're from, and what's motivating them. And he argues that that violence

has sparked an entirely new political era in America.

Bob, how are you today? Oh, I'm great. I'm terrific. This is just a great time to be in Chicago. A little cold, but, you know, about Chicago.

I was about to say, great time for you. I'm a Florida boy, so I was just in Chicago. It's like, let me go home.

So, Bob, I thought I would, like, kind of start off a little bit and kind of give

you like my background and to into why i'm really interested about the things that we're going to

be talking about today uh right after charlottesville happened um you know when when when i look back now

i feel like it was such a precursor for where we are

today. And also, I think in 2016, I was looking back and it felt like, strangely, it felt like

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