Hello, friends and neighbors, and welcome back to the Bill Press Pod.

In the first line of The Tale of Two Cities, Charles Dickens famously wrote, it was the best of times, it was the worst of times.

But were he alive today, Dickens might simply cut it short and say, it was the worst of times. But were he alive today, Dickens might simply cut it short

and say, it's the worst of times. Indeed, after four years of Donald Trump, a year and a half

of COVID, 25% of Americans not accepting the results of the last election, and the country,

perhaps, more divided than ever before,

it's hard to imagine a tougher time for America, leading some, starting with President Biden

himself, to openly raise the question whether or not our democracy can even survive.

How did we get here? How bad is it? And how do we get out of this mess?

Those are the questions that the Atlantic's George Packer tackles in his provocative and insightful

new book just out last week, Last Best Hope, America in Crisis and Renewal. George Packer,

good to talk to you.

Thank you for joining us here on the Bill Press pod.

Thank you for having me.

First, George, before we get into your very insightful, very important, new book, Last

Best Hope, I must tell you, I have never enjoyed a political biography more than I enjoyed your recent

book, Our Man, about Richard Holbrook.

I read a lot of political biographies and really is one of the best ever.

So congratulations on that.

Thank you.

But I have to ask you, is there any doubt that if Holbrook were still alive, he would be, he would have been a royal pain in the ass to become Secretary of State under Joe Biden?

He would never have given up that effort, even though I think it would have been too late for him if he had lived.

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