While Walmart's leadership today, like Doug McMillan, would say, it's very important

to keep Sam's legacy alive, I think there was, there was, to a lot of people just in, you

know, a sense that Walmart still in this era now was, was worrying about Sam's methods

and strategies and tactics too much for a world that, you know, Sam never lived in.

I'm Mary Long and that's Jason Delray, author of the new book, Winner Cells All, Amazon,

Walmart, and the battle for our wallets.

I caught up with Delray to talk about why Walmart and Amazon even need to battle for your

money, Amazon's foray into grocery and the cultural forces that continue to drive each

of these companies.

Your book is called Winner Cells All, but is the world really not wide enough for both Amazon

and Walmart?

Why does this battle have to have a winner?

Listen, I think when I started writing the book three years ago, it really did seem like

we were headed in a direction, at least in the online world where Amazon just continued

to gobble up market share and in large product categories might eventually be, you know, just

about the last person's debt, the last entity's standing.

I mean, they were, you know, the marketplace is ever-expanding.

Sellers feel like if they're selling online, they have to do business with Amazon.

And so for a long time, I think there are people who care about the future of retail that

were worried that at least online, that's the way we were heading.

I think things have changed a bit over the last year or two, but we can get to that.

So you kind of hinted at this, but you've spent the past decade recording on these two

...