good conflict in homage to what the late John Lewis used to call good trouble.

It's the kind of conflict where questions get asked, you experience anger and frustration

and maybe even fear and sadness, but then you cycle through flashes of understanding and curiosity,

maybe even humor and then back to anger.

And you can see this in the data, which is cool.

In the conflicts that are good conflict, there is movement and you can feel it, right?

In yourself, there's some movement, whereas high conflict, you're stuck, like you're having

the same fight over and over and you're not remotely curious.

So life today can feel like wall to wall conflict.

And most of us, well, we plain hate the feeling that that gives us the thing is some conflict

is not only good, but necessary and important.

While other conflict, high conflict is pretty much a road to othering isolation and devastation.

Question is, how do you know the difference?

And once you do, how do you step into good conflict or turn high conflict into good conflict

with more grace and ease that both helps you breathe, but also leads to a genuine resolution

that leads everyone better for it.

My guest today, Amanda Ripley, offers wise counsel here.

So Amanda is a New York Times best-selling author, investigate journalist and co-founder of Good Conflict.

Her previous books include The smartest kids in the world and The Unthinkable and her most recent book,

High Conflict, Why We Get Trapped and How We Get Out.

It explores the complexities of high conflict through storytelling and interviews,

featuring a dozen people in three countries who escaped destructive conflicts to gather lessons

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