Always Adding More: The Unpopular Reality about Energy Transitions with Jean-Baptiste Fressoz
The Great Simplification with Nate Hagens
Nate Hagens
4.8 • 551 Ratings
🗓️ 5 February 2025
⏱️ 75 minutes
🧾️ Download transcript
Summary
(Conversation recorded on November 6th, 2024)
The vision of a carbon-free, net-zero society is often framed around the promise of transitioning away from fossil fuels. But what can we learn from past "energy transitions" that might inform how feasible – or unrealistic – this vision actually is?
Today, Nate is joined by energy and technology historian Jean-Baptiste Fressoz for a lesson on the importance of understanding the historical trajectory of energy use for realistically navigating the unprecedented challenges humanity faces today – including the dominant narrative of a modern-day "energy transition." Jean-Baptiste explores the interdependent relationship between different energy sources—from wood to coal to oil—and reveals how this history shapes our hopes for renewables and nuclear energy moving forward.
How can examining the history of energy and material use help us fully grasp the scale at which human societies actually consume them? What role do our current economic systems play in driving an ever-growing demand for new energy sources? In the history of our species, have we ever fully transitioned off of one energy source and replaced it with another – and what does this imply for the hope of a fossil-free future?
About Jean Baptiste Fressoz:
Jean-Baptiste Fressoz is a historian and researcher at the Alexandre Koyré Center of the School for Advanced Studies in the Social Sciences in Paris, France. His work focuses on environmental history, technology and energy, and the Anthropocene. He is the author of Happy Apocalypse: A History of Technological Risk, as well as the co-author of the book Chaos in the Heavens: The Forgotten History of Climate Change. Most recently, he wrote More and More and More: An All Consuming History of Energy.
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Transcript
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| 0:00.0 | you don't do an energy transition. Energy transition is just a slogan. It's not a serious scientific word. |
| 0:05.0 | What you do is you decrease the carbon intensity of the economy. We have been here before. |
| 0:09.0 | Technological progress and solar panels is part of the history of technological progress. It is an old story. |
| 0:15.0 | We are not on the threshold of a complete revolution. |
| 0:26.2 | You're listening to the Great Simplification. I'm Nate Hagen's. On this show, we describe how energy, the economy, the environment and human behavior all fit together and what it |
| 0:32.0 | might mean for our future. By sharing insights from global thinkers, we hope to inform |
| 0:37.1 | and inspire more humans to play |
| 0:39.8 | emergent roles in the coming great simplification. |
| 0:49.1 | Bonjour. |
| 0:50.8 | Today I am joined by historian of science and technology, Jean-Baptiste Frezzo, for an overview |
| 0:59.0 | on the history of energy. |
| 1:02.2 | Jean-Baptiste is a senior researcher at the French National Center for Scientific Research, |
| 1:07.2 | as well as professor at the National School of Bridges and Roads. |
| 1:13.0 | He is the author of several books, most notably his recent, titled More and More and More, |
| 1:18.6 | an all-consuming history of energy, which is the subject of our conversation today. |
| 1:25.3 | Jean-Baptiste unpacks the common misperception in the field of historical energy dynamics |
| 1:31.8 | that have led our popular memes and stories about the false possibility of the energy |
| 1:38.3 | transition to a world entirely run on renewables, which longtime listeners of this show know is one of the core |
| 1:45.4 | precepts of the great simplification. Before we begin, if you enjoy this podcast, one of the |
| 1:51.9 | biggest ways you can support us is by subscribing to it on your favorite platform and sharing |
| 1:57.2 | this episode with someone who might also enjoy it. We believe in making this content free and accessible to as many curious pro-future humans as possible, |
| 2:07.3 | so we appreciate your subscribing and sharing. |
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