Hey everybody, it's Joe Trippy and welcome back to that Trippy show.

Alex had a baby.

He and his wife.

Yeah, Thomas Andrew. And so Alex is doing more important things right at this

moment. Congrats to Alex. Yeah, congrats buddy and I'm sure he wanted our listeners to know it with me is

our special guest Joe Costello. Um, Joe and I go back in so many

different crazy places. Uh, uh, uh, we both did Jerry Brown's campaign, um, for president in

1992 together. Joe was the first one to come up with the 800 number idea that drove Tom Brokaw and everybody else crazy,

raised $8 million or more, I think, with people calling in to contribute.

The first real interactive, you know, sort of going to the streets for money but using

TV and the 800 number to do it I was a supporter of that but it was Joe who came

up with it first but then later on we would well we joined together many times, but we joined together the Dean campaign

where we set some other fundraising stuff and other crazy organizing things, which we'll get into a little bit.

And of course, Joe and I have worked internationally together in places like Tanzania and Nigeria and, you know, trying to get support democracy on the continent.

But anyway, Joe has, first of all, welcome, Joe.

Thanks for being with it.

Thanks very much for having me, Joe.

But Joe has a book out.

And it's called The Politics of Ape and Machine,

Power as Organization is the subtitle.

And he also has a ghost that he writes called Life in the 21st century which

I do read I get a lot of the heads-up emails and I go read them and they're excellent

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