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rational security, chatter, law fair no bull, and the aftermath.

And it says people think this is really kind of counterproductive,

to say we need to invest now into Ukraine's long-term resilience,

even as the war is going on.

Even as all this is happening, you know, we security and resilience go hand in hand.

But because if we don't and know the war ends and hopefully Ukraine is the winner of that war,

it gains this territory. But if we haven't invested in ensuring that we have a vibrant Ukrainian civil society,

that we have Ukrainian judiciary, this independent, Ukrainian court stand,

dependent all those elements that contribute to a vibrant democratic society,

then I don't know where the country will go.

I'm Benjamin Wittis and this is the LawFair podcast, February 24th, 2023.

Yes, February 24th, that's the first anniversary of the full scale invasion of Ukraine by Russia.

And I thought to myself, who do I want to have a conversation with about the first year of the full scale invasion and what comes next?

And I thought, I know exactly who I want to talk to, Alina Poliakova, president of the Center for European Policy Analysis.

She joined me in the virtual jungle studio to do a kind of tour of the entire region.

What's been going on in Ukraine the past year? What's been going on in Russia the past year?

How about Eastern Europe? How about Western Europe?

...