Alexander Vindman's 'The Folly of Realism' suggests a long-term approach to Ukraine

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🗓️ 11 March 2025

⏱️ 9 minutes

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Summary

More than three years after Russia's full-scale invasion of Ukraine, Alexander Vindman is out with a new book on U.S.-Ukraine relations. Vindman, who was born in Ukraine, is the retired Army lieutenant colonel who testified against President Trump in the 2019 impeachment hearings. In his new book, The Folly of Realism, Vindman argues that the United States has taken an incorrect position towards Russia and Ukraine since the collapse of the Soviet Union, a period spanning six American presidential administrations. In today's episode, he joins NPR's Mary Louise Kelly for a conversation that touches on what Vindman calls the Trump administration's "Russia First" policy, the case for investing in Ukraine and Taiwan, and when the conflict in Ukraine might end.

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Transcript

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0:00.0	Hey, it's NPR's book of the day. I'm Andrew Limbong. It's impossible for me to predict where
0:07.8	we will be in the day-to-day geopolitics of the war in Ukraine by the time you listen to this. So what I say
0:13.9	now today might not be true tomorrow or whatever time it is for you. But there's a new bookout
0:19.6	that can help us think big picture about
0:22.0	what's going on. It's titled The Folly of Realism, How the West Deceived Itself about Russia and
0:27.7	betrayed Ukraine by Alexander Vindman, the retired Army lieutenant colonel who testified against
0:33.5	President Trump back in 2019. He's also the former director of European Affairs for the
0:38.7	United States National Security Council. But Vindman tells NPR's Mary Lewis Kelly that
0:43.2	America's failures with regard to Ukraine predate President Trump and that if we want to end the
0:49.2	war, we should be thinking about long-term objectives. There's more after the break.
0:55.3	In the U.S., national security news can feel far away from daily life.
1:00.2	Distant wars, murky conflicts, diplomacy behind closed doors.
1:04.7	On our new show, Sources and Methods.
1:06.7	NPR reporters on the ground bring you stories of real people,
1:10.5	helping you understand why distant events matter here at home.
1:14.3	Listen to sources and methods on the NPR app or wherever you get your podcasts.
1:19.6	This week, as we mark three years since Russia's full-scale invasion of Ukraine, among the many people offering up ideas for how to end that war
1:29.6	is Alexander Vindman. Now, a little background here. Vindman was born in Ukraine, immigrated to the
1:35.4	United States as a child. And if you recognize his name, there's a decent chance that is because
1:41.6	of a moment back in 2019. When Vindman, by then, a staffer in the
1:46.1	Trump White House and an active duty officer in the U.S. Army testified in impeachment hearings
1:52.2	against his commander-in-chief.
	...

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