Alexander Stubb, President of Finland: We live in a world of disorder
The Interview
BBC
4.3 • 537 Ratings
🗓️ 18 March 2026
⏱️ 23 minutes
🧾️ Download transcript
Summary
“The changing date was the war in Ukraine in February 2022, and then probably the new American administration. So we don't know where the world is going to land. We live a little bit in a world of disorder right now.”
Matt Chorley speaks to Alexander Stubb, President of Finland about shifting global priorities and allegiances.
President Stubb is known for his good relationship with his American counterpart Donald Trump, forged in part over their shared love of golf. But in spite of this he believes it is right that Nato, as a defensive alliance, should stay out of the war in Iran. This, he says, is the US and Israel’s conflict.
Thank you to the BBC Newsnight team for its help in making this programme. The Interview brings you conversations with people shaping our world, from all over the world. The best interviews from the BBC, including episodes with Polish President Karol Nawrocki and the Mayor of Kyiv Vitali Klitschko. You can listen on the BBC World Service on Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays at 0800 GMT. Or you can listen to The Interview as a podcast, out three times a week on BBC Sounds or wherever you get your podcasts.
Presenter: Matt Chorley Producers: Jonathan Aspinwall, Adam Bowen, Katherine Hodgson, Jack Hunter and Osman Iqbal Editor: Justine Lang and Damon Rose
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(Image: Alexander Stubb Credit: Jason Alden/Bloomberg via Getty Images)
Transcript
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| 0:00.0 | BBC Sounds, Music, Radio, podcasts. |
| 0:06.1 | Hello, I'm Matt Chawley, BBC presenter, and this is the interview from the BBC World Service, |
| 0:11.9 | the best conversations coming out of the BBC, people shaping our world from all over the world. |
| 0:19.0 | If you're not a little bit afraid, then you're not paying attention. |
| 0:23.6 | We have never seen a people so united. |
| 0:27.2 | Do not make that boat crossing. Do not make that journey. |
| 0:29.9 | Being born in America, feeling American, having people treat me like I'm not. |
| 0:34.0 | We're more popular than populism. |
| 0:37.8 | For this interview, I met Finland's president, Alexander Stub, while he was on a visit to London. |
| 0:43.5 | He believes the world is at a point of transition with political priorities and allegiances shifting, |
| 0:48.8 | a process of change that started with the Russian invasion of Ukraine, |
| 0:52.6 | and has continued a pace under the second Trump |
| 0:54.8 | administration. We are currently living, he tells me, in a world of disorder. |
| 1:00.7 | Alexander Stubb is also believed to have the ear of the US leader. They share a love of |
| 1:05.3 | golf, but does he agree that NATO should be doing more to support America in his ongoing war |
| 1:10.7 | with Iran. |
| 1:11.5 | It's not Article 3, Article 4 or Article 5 of NATO, |
| 1:15.3 | because that for us is about protecting ourselves in a situation. |
| 1:19.5 | So what I've always said, that NATO is a defence alliance, it's a military alliance. |
| 1:24.4 | It's not an alliance that attacks. That's the basic idea. When NATO 2.0 was |
| 1:31.0 | sort of founded after the end of the Cold War, we went a lot into crisis management or |
| 1:35.8 | peacekeeping, right? We did that in Kosovo. We did it in Afghanistan. And then there was always |
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