And I think I would go crazy if I just had to do the political stuff.

I tell people about a lot where they say to me like, what can I do to feel different and better?

I'm like, shut off the TV, get off social media, take Twitter off your phone.

That's right.

Have a thing in the real world, even though we're in a, even though the world may be on fire, have a thing

in the real world that you do that you love. Your task will not be an easy one. Your enemy is well

trained, well equipped in battlehardt. There is not a liberal America and a conservative America.

There is the United States of America.

Good night and good luck.

Hey, folks, it's Rick Wilson.

Welcome back to the Lincoln Project Podcast.

As always, I am your host, and I'm joined today by a very fascinating guy.

Alex Gibney is one of the most prolific and insightful documentary filmmakers out there today.

And I wanted to talk to Alex today, not only about where he sees the role of filmmaking and narrative, because we work in different formats.

He works in the longer explanatory format.

We work in the shorter punch in the face format.

But a lot of the stuff that Alex has dug into,

it's politics, its culture, it's an approach to, it's an approach to looking at our moments

that we're in our, in our, in our, in our, in this chaotic era, that I find really compelling um and I wanted to talk to you

first Alex about your your newest project which is the BB files your most recent project

because as somebody who uh was working on some Israeli politics a few years ago

while this was happening with

...