BBC Sounds, Music, Radio, podcasts.

Hang on a second.

Usually when I'm presenting this podcast,

I'm sat opposite the great Nick Robinson,

who is fair, who's impartial,

apart from the fact he sports, Manchester United,

and who I trust completely.

Whereas you, Alistair Campbell, our guest this week, well, let's just say you're a Bernie fan

and you're certainly not impartial, are you?

No, yeah, well it depends. We can have a long discussion about what we mean by impartial.

Well, I know about your historic views about the BBC. Do you want to know what I want you to talk about?

I'm going to ask you, what job to talk about.

Well, look, we had a deep dive last week, a really thoughtful deep dive into the realignment of the right of British politics, and we're going to step back from the problems that Mr Sunak is facing, and I want to switch it up and look at the left, and there's a lot going on with the Labour Party this week, and I thought you'd be quite useful to talk to about whether or not Kierstahmer's party is ready for government. What your advice to them would be if they asked for it. And also what lessons they can and can't draw from Labour's victory in 1997. Sounds good. Let's do it. Hello, it's a mole here. I've not long finished presenting the Today program, and as we do in

this podcast, I'm on a sofa in the Today Podcast studio. This is where we take a step back and look at the big story of the week. Nick is going to be back from the jungle next week. But as you've heard, Alistair Campbell is here today and I'm going to either be cosplaying Rory Stewart or you're going to be cosplaying Nick. You can work that out later. Alistair, how are you? I'm fine, but I'm a bit troubled by the fact you described that as a sofa. It's a chair.

I'm on a sofa.

But does that... you can work that out later. Alistair, how are you? I'm fine, but I'm a bit troubled by the fact you described that as a sofa.

It's a chair.

I'm on a sofa. But is that you were thinking you were me? You've never been a great stickler for accuracy. So let's not get off on the wrong. That is wrong. And let's just not even let that pass. Look, I'm going to be humble about this. So I know humility doesn't necessarily come to you that easily.

But have you got any advice for people, you know, developing podcasts on the key to having a successful podcast? Because in case listeners don't know, you are one half of, I think we can say the biggest podcast in Britain, certainly covering politics. The rest is politics. What's the key? The questions will get tougher after this. I mean, I've thought about it a lot because I've been surprised by it.

I think it's partly because we're so different. So different. I think we're very different. We're both centrist dads? No. I think we're different backgrounds, different life stories, different parties. I think the motto of disagree-agreeably is key to it. Did you have any idea that it was going to become such a big part of your life or frankly so lucrative?

No, I had no idea. We actually said at the start, let's give it a go. That was it. It wasn't a big plan at all. But it seemed to strike a chord straight away. It's interesting you said disagree agreeably. If you're honest, are you a slightly more mellow podcaster than you were political spin doctor? Do you mean a strategic communicator? Yeah, because you got a reputation of it being a hard, nut, fierce, you didn't mind ringing people up and being pretty aggressive about making sure they heard the thing that you were strategically communicating to them. Yeah. This is different, as to Campbell, one who's more thoughtful on the podcast. I think I've always been thoughtful.

Contemplative?

...