So Glenn Greenwald and Matt Taiyubi folks.

So by way of introduction, I want to just sort of tell the story of how this panel happened.

It arose out of almost a throwaway comment that Jason made on episode of the pod where

he was talking about lining up speakers for this event.

And he said that he was having a hard time getting liberals.

All he could find were like right wingers like Glenn Greenwald and Matt Taiyubi.

And in terms of just to explain their backgrounds a little bit, Matt used to be the both independent

journalists who write phenomenal columns on Substack and all of you should check it on

subscribe.

And by the way, they also do a call in shows on a phenomenal podcasting platform.

You should all check out.

But Matt was sort of like the left wing fire brand, sort of populous fire brand on writing

for Rolling Stone who back in 2009 was asking the question, why the people who caused the

great financial crisis, why no one was going to jail.

And Glenn broke this note in story about how the government was engaging in mass surveillance

on all of us and raising questions about the infringement of our civil liberties.

So both these guys have, I'd say, well-established Bonafidees used to be considered left wing sort

of liberal Bonafidees.

But now today somehow they've been read out of what you would call liberalism today.

And so that comment that Jason Maynard sort of, I think there's so much to unpack there

on how that happened.

But does liberalism today mean if it doesn't include you guys?

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