Hi everybody, I'm John Don Van from Intelligence Squared. June 2021, Houston Methodist, a hospital

system in Texas with 25,000 employees, suspends close to 200 of those employees without pay,

because they were resisting a new job requirement, which was to be vaccinated against COVID-19,

and they were told they would eventually be fired if they did not reverse course and

get the vaccine. At least 117 of those employees sued the hospital system, but a federal judge

dismissed the case. Call this a first round in what is likely to be an ongoing battle.

Employers and hospitals, police departments, universities requiring vaccination against COVID

in order to participate in their communities. They are citing safety for all and also a campaign

to the return to normal, but some people pushing back, saying that vaccine mandates violate their

individual rights and also expose them to potential danger from the vaccine themselves.

Which side is right in this? Well, that's what we're going to be talking about, whether vaccine

mandates are justified in the fight against COVID-19. As this is Intelligence Squared, we're going

to be going with opposing perspectives. I want to say welcome first to Michael J. Anderson,

an attorney out of Madison, Wisconsin, who has represented employees who like those in Texas,

are resisting an employer's vaccine mandate. Michael, thanks so much for joining us at Intelligence Squared.

Thank you so much, Sean. And our other member of the group here is Professor Lawrence

Gosten, who's out of Washington, DC, a professor of law at Georgetown, who specializes in the law

of public health. Larry Gosten, thank you for joining us on Intelligence Squared.

Thanks a real pleasure, thanks for having me. And just a moment of full disclosure for me,

Georgetown, where Larry Gosten is based is one of the schools with a vaccine mandate in place for

students and faculty and staff. I want to say up front that my wife is the university's chief

public health officer. And I learned only recently has collaborated with Larry Gosten. So I would

...