Against the Machine: On the Unmaking of Humanity | Paul Kingsnorth

Hidden Forces

Demetri Kofinas

Government, Business

4.8 • 1.6K Ratings

🗓️ 22 September 2025

⏱️ 54 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

In Episode 440 of Hidden Forces, Demetri Kofinas speaks with Paul Kingsnorth, a novelist, essayist, and former environmental activist who first came on many people’s radars during the Covid-19 pandemic with the publication of his viral three-part series “The Vaccine Moment.” His current work explores the intersection of technology, culture, and the divine. In his latest book, Against the Machine, Kingsnorth examines how our increasingly mechanized way of seeing and relating to the world—and to ourselves—has contributed to the death of Western culture, and what it would take to reclaim our humanity and save our souls.

Paul Kingsnorth and Kofinas spend the first hour of the episode tracing his journey from direct-action environmentalism through Buddhism and paganism to his eventual baptism into Orthodox Christianity and how that quest informs his critique of The Machine. They discuss AI as a false God and conduit through which humanity may be ushering in the anti-Christ and how Kingsnorth’s Machine framework relates to Jacques Ellul’s concept of technique and Iain McGilchrist model of the divided brain. They also explore why this historical moment feels “apocalyptic”—as if something is being unveiled—or perhaps more accurately as if something is being born through the wires and towers of the web and through the electric pulses and touchscreens of our connected devices.

The second hour turns to a conversation about how we should each respond in this consequential time, how we draw practical lines around technology, how to rebuild our communities, how to guard ourselves against charlatans and false prophets, and why love and nostalgia can guide us home.

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Episode Recorded on 09/16/2025

Transcript

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0:00.0	What's up, everybody? My name is Demetri Gaffinus, and you're listening to Hidden Forces,
0:06.1	a podcast that inspires investors, entrepreneurs, and everyday citizens, to challenge consensus
0:12.7	narratives, and learn how to think critically about the systems of power shaping our world.
0:18.5	My guest in this episode of Hidden Forces is Paul Kingsnorth, a novelist,
0:23.3	essayist, and former environmental activist who first came on many people's radars during the
0:28.8	COVID-19 pandemic with the publication of his viral three-part series The Vaccine Moment,
0:34.1	and whose current work explores the intersection of technology, culture,
0:38.9	and the divine.
0:40.3	In Paul's latest book, Against the Machine, he examines how our increasingly mechanized
0:45.1	way of seeing and being in relationship to the world that ourselves is responsible for
0:50.7	what he describes as the death of Western culture, and what it would take to reclaim our humanity and save our souls.
0:58.0	Paul and I spend the first hour of our conversation tracing his journey from direct action environmentalism through Buddhism and paganism to his eventual baptism into Orthodox Christianity,
1:09.0	and how that quest informs his critique of what he describes
1:13.5	as the machine.
1:15.1	We discuss AI as a false God and as the possible conduit through which humanity may be ushering
1:20.4	in the Antichrist, how Paul's machine framework relates to the popular theories of Jacques
1:25.5	Lle and his concept of technique, and Ian McGilchrist
1:28.8	and his model of the left and right brain. We also explore why this moment in history feels
1:34.0	apocalyptic in the literal sense of that term that something is being unveiled, perhaps more
1:40.0	accurately that something is being borne through the wires and towers of the web, through
1:45.4	the electrical pulses and touch screens of our connected devices.
1:50.1	The conflict and strife we're experiencing, the culture wars, the political infighting,
	...

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