Hi, this is against everyone with Connor Abeeb.

Friends, in times of obvious schisms between human beings and the structures and institutions we've created to help us,

a lot of opportunities can be stirred up.

And these are opportunities that only the frenetic and urgent intensity of times of

schism can show us. We can see in times like that that there have always been many pathways

available to us, but that we were stuck in our heads, in our thoughts, and that we can move past

that and be there for each other and

dissolve obstruction.

We can even redeem evil and turn it into the willing service of good.

It's with that sense of possibility that I turn to the occult and esotericism for direction.

The problem is, for a lot of people, what are esoteric and occult development

anyway? Are they the same as self-development, self-help, abundance culture, using magic,

or are spiritual development and self-development quite different? And if so, are they therefore

pointing us to different worlds, different ways of being?

And also, if they're different, where do they touch?

To discuss all this, I asked Duncan Barford and Alan Chapman onto the show for conversation and contemplation.

Duncan and Alan are perhaps best known for their chronicle of their efforts to

achieve enlightenment through magical traditions, the Baptist head, magic as a path to

enlightenment, which is being re-released next year after being out of print for years.

They now co-host an excellent podcast on spirituality, magic, enlightenment, the paranormal,

all that, called Warp FM.

Alan is also the caretaker of the spiritual path of Ordo Magia, and Duncan is a counselor

...