Hi, this is Against Everyone with Connor Habib, a podcast featuring my conversations with countercultural figures and presenting complex, philosophical, spiritual, and political ideas in an engaging and accessible way.

I'm very excited to share this episode with journalist, author, and filmmaker John Ronson.

I'd like to start this episode by talking about another podcast, though.

It's a leftist podcast I like called Bad Faith podcast. It's hosted by Brianna Joy Gray and Virgil,

Texas. In a recent episode, Brianna is weathering a very intense conversation where someone was saying to her that they

wanted right-wingers, specifically racist right-wingers, people that identify with Nazi projects

or proud boys and so forth. One of them killed, didn't care about their lives, that sort of thing.

And Brianna held her ground and spoke on this episode with compassion and care,

and also about her own fears and uncomfortabilities as a black woman in America,

and also as a leftist who is trying to understand people

who became racist, who became even violent racist, people who hold Nazi or Nazi-like ideologies

and trying to understand how they might be disadvantaged primarily

using a class analysis Rihanna brought up many times can we de-radicalize

people and the guest who I guess you'll just probably go look this up so I'll just say

Tali Alvin kept saying that de-radicalization

isn't scalable, it's unrealistic. The only solution in this is to humiliate to docks and even to kill.

Now, I am not saying this to draw lines or sides between the two exactly.

I don't think that there's any reason to go after Talia Lavin here.

I do however want to say that I admire how Brianna handled the conversation. And you can all go watch it for yourself.

I'll put a link to it in the show notes

or a link to the Bad Faith podcast, Patreon.

What I was struck by Brianna's patience, presence, and integrity.

...