Hi, this is Against Everyone with Connor Habib, a podcast featuring my conversations with countercultural figures and presenting complex, philosophical, spiritual, and political ideas in an engaging and accessible way.

Hello, friends.

As you may know, if you've been listening to the show recently, the only thing that I have been focused on lately

is love.

Back on episode 159, which I did with Duncan Truzzle, I talked a bit about how the greatest

teachers in my life always, but I can see it right now, are the people I love and who

love me. And it's not that I don't get huge lessons from people who are spiritual teachers,

from philosophers, from artists.

But I'm learning that from my life now, the transformation that's happening with me, and

I think to some extent the transformation that needs to happen in the world is going

to come from really standing in love, letting love hold you, and in some ways

letting love really break you down in a way as well to change you, to move you.

And I therefore wanted to ask you, to move you. And I, therefore, wanted to ask someone who I love very deeply to be on the show.

So I asked my best friend, Jeb Havens, to be on against everyone. Jeb is, he's a game designer, he's a musician, he creates escape rooms,

and I've known Jeb for 20 years about now. And the thing about Jeb is he and I and I started off as boyfriends.

We were together for five years.

And then we broke up and slowly something began to happen where the very conditional love that I

had for him as a partner started to become unconditional.

And it's something. I don't have this relationship with anybody else in my life.

Everybody has that one friend. That means so much to them. Maybe you're blessed enough to have more than one,

but in some ways I say that Jeb is the only person I've ever met.

And that's because I see him as he is,

...