Adam Tooze on World Order, Then and Now
The Lawfare Podcast
The Lawfare Institute
4.7 • 6.4K Ratings
🗓️ 4 November 2020
⏱️ 75 minutes
🧾️ Download transcript
Summary
In a conversation completely unrelated to yesterday's election, Jordan Schneider of ChinaTalk and Matthew Klein, author of the recent "Trade Wars Are Class Wars," spoke with Adam Tooze, a professor at Columbia University and an economic historian. They discussed what we can learn from the diplomatic and economic modes of the 1930s, why Nazi legal theory resonates so well in China today, how Xinjiang's camps echo the logic of Soviet gulags, whether the U.S. in fact lost the Cold War and the bureaucracies in which Adam would have loved to work.
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Transcript
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| 0:22.0 | rational security, chatter, law fair no bull, and the aftermath. |
| 0:29.0 | The reason element of the Nazi concentration camp system, |
| 0:37.0 | which is a forced labour camp system, |
| 0:39.0 | but it was always ultimately genocidal in the literal physical sense. |
| 0:43.0 | I don't think there's every reason to think that the Chinese project of cultural transformation |
| 0:47.0 | probably meets genocidal standards in Xinjiang, |
| 0:51.0 | at least it goes a very long way in that direction. |
| 0:54.0 | But it's not obvious that there is no necessity for destruction |
| 0:58.0 | through labour, which was understood by the Nazis |
| 1:01.0 | and absolutely core component of, especially there in incarceration, |
| 1:06.0 | of course, of the Jewish population and their murder of the Jewish population. |
| 1:09.0 | But also in the long run, very large slices of the Slav population recently as well. |
| 1:12.0 | I don't see that logic being analogous. |
| 1:15.0 | The colonial logic, the settlement logic, the use of forced labour |
| 1:19.0 | and archipelago force camps for the purposes of political re-education |
| 1:23.0 | and also infrastructural transformation. |
| 1:26.0 | The history after all of the Xinjiang forced labour complex |
... |
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