This week on the Andrew Yang podcast.

I think liberalism should be proud of its vision of the future.

And I think political movements need both a negative and positive identity.

By negative identity, I mean they need a sense of negative polarization.

What are you against? What are you defining yourself

against? But also liberals need, liberals need, I think, a positive vision of what we're trying to

accomplish. If not just for the campaign trail, then for actually governing.

It is my pleasure to welcome back to the podcast, economics writer for the Atlantic, host of Plain English, which is a really popular Ringer podcast. You should definitely check out.

And co-author of the brand new book, Abundance. Derek Thompson. Welcome, Derek. It's great to be

here. Thank you. Wow, man. Where to get started with abundance? So first, how did this project

kick off? Because you have a co-author, Ezra Klein, who's also been on the podcast. But how did this

collab come to pass? Ezra and I were talking a lot in 2021 about a variety of issues on the phone.

I was living in D.C. I think he was in San Francisco before his move to New York City.

And we were talking about politics and crypto for a variety of reasons and just sort of getting

in each other's head in terms of ideas about the world and the future of liberalism.

And as I was coming off of a book leave for a book that will never ultimately be written or completed,

Ezra wrote this wonderful piece for The New York Times about the economic mistake the left is finally confronting.

And this was a piece in which he made

this really beautiful turn where he said a lot of liberalism, a lot of the Democratic Party's

priorities over the last half century, have been on the demand side of the ledger. The tax and

spend to liberalism has done a lot of good, Medicare and Medicaid and Social Security, EITC,

but we've mostly focused on the tax side of the ledger, the spending side of the

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