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Welcome to the Dispatch podcast. I'm Steve Hayes. In this episode, Kevin Williamson, Dispatch National Correspondent, is joined by Philip Rossetti, a contributor to our new Dispatch Energy newsletter. Dispatch Energy will be published on Thursdays and cover topics ranging from oil and gas and permitting regulations to renewables, nuclear, the grid, and the climate. Check out the link in the show notes to make sure you're signed up to receive it. On today's episode, Kevin and Philip dive into the abundance movement and its role in shaping the debate over permitting reform.

With rising energy prices and housing costs, even some traditionally pro-regulation Democrats are

rethinking their stance and finding common ground with free market advocates in the push

to make America more affordable. Let's listen in.

Music push to make America more affordable. Let's listen in. I'm going back and forth in my head between Phil and Philip here, and I know you mostly go by Phil, but I think I'm going to settle on Philip.

It feels a little more formal and maybe a little more appropriate to the occasion.

I wrote a piece about dress codes today, so I'm having a bit of formality in my brain right now.

So you started off by writing about the abundance movement and how it relates to energy and permitting. I'd like to talk about that a little bit. I was not a huge fan of the abundance book, which I thought was not great, but as a political movement and as a way for Democrats, in particular, in people on the left to engage with policy issues and in the political world. I think

it's pretty good. And I welcome it. When people talk about this stuff, maybe the utility permitting

process is not the first thing that leaps to mind for a lot of them. A lot of people are thinking

about housing and stuff like that at the top of their agenda. But tell me about that and why it's

important and why we are talking about that and why it's important

and why we are talking about it and should be talking about it.

Sure.

Well, thanks for having me, Kevin.

You know, I hope I lived up to the dress code

that you wrote about.

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