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And here is the second part of Adam Schatz's conversation with Olivier Hoare.

In 1992, Olivier,

you published a book called The Failure of Political Islam. The title of that book drew a considerable

amount of attention because political Islam appeared to be in the ascendancy, and yet you predicted

its inevitable decline.

Can you explain what you meant by the failure of political Islam?

By political Islam, I mean the political ideology of the Muslim brothers, the Iranian Islamic

revolution, the Reifar Party in Turkey, the Jammat Islamists.

So it's a very specific category of modern Islamist thinkers who draw the conclusions of the failure of the Muslim world to resist colonialism in the 19th century.

And these guys came to the conclusion that the issue is not Sharia, as such.

The issue is to rethink Islam as an all-encompassing ideology while adopting the techniques of the West.

Maududi, Hassan al-Bana.

Islamic reform movements.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's an Islamic reform movement.

And it's, I want to say, transforming because for them there is no such a gap between ideology and religion, but recasting Islam as a political ideology.

And they use the term ideology.

...