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Hey, this is Michael Copeland. This is the A16Z podcast.

We have two special guests here today, near Ayal, and Ryan Hoover, who they're clutching

the galleys of their new book, hooked, how to build habit-forming products.

And Ryan had actually never seen it, and so he was just complimenting the nice color

of yellow on the cover.

Yeah, we have a new cover. Great job. This is, it's very bold. I like it.

So for those of you who don't know, Neer, it seems like he does everything. You lecture at the

Stanford Graduate School of Business, at the D school. You've started video game companies.

You've written this book now with Ryan.

Not all at the same time,

just to be clear. I'm glad to hear that. And Ryan, you are the founder of Product Hunt.

Yes, that's great. Which we are all very wild about these days, or everybody is very wild about these days. So thanks for coming in, you guys.

Thanks for having us.

This is great.

Great setup, much better than my own.

So we want to get into Hooked.

And before we sort of dig into the book and what you guys, you know, uncovered,

how is it that you two even met and embarked on this project together?

...