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slash disclosures. Hi, everyone. Welcome to the A6 and Z podcast.

I'm Sonal.

So this week, to continue our tenure anniversary series since the founding of A6 and Z,

we're actually resurfacing some of our previous episodes featuring founders Mark

Andresen and Ben Horwitz.

If you haven't heard our latest episode with Stuart Butterfield turning the tables as

the entrepreneur interviewing them.

Please do check that out and other episodes in this series that we've been running all week on our website at a6.z.com slash 10. But this episode was actually recorded in 2014 on the

five-year anniversary of the firm and features Michael Copeland interviewing Ben and Mark about

disruption theory as well as key traits of entrepreneurs.

Disruption theory has been in the news of late as it relates to Clayton Christensen, you know, the master of this.

And I just want to ask you guys not so much about the criticism of him, but from where you sit, that theory and his thinking kind of galvanized itself into a book

in 1997, you know, do you build companies differently today? Does, do those theories still hold

water or what's changed? Yeah, so I think his book was actually quite brilliant. It's funny that

it's coming under criticism now

after he's been proving like completely right into the general idea that he had. It actually

reminds me of the creationist attacks on evolution where like, yes, from it, it's like intellectualism

at its worst, right? It's like, oh, here's something wrong with Darwin's original

theory. And it's like, okay, now we've based all of biology on it. We've made tremendous progress.

...