A world-changing war: four years in Ukraine
Economist Podcasts
The Economist
4.3 • 5K Ratings
🗓️ 24 February 2026
⏱️ 21 minutes
🧾️ Download transcript
Summary
On the fourth anniversary of a war that many predicted would last mere days, much has changed—even beyond the unthinkable misery in Ukraine itself. Alliances have weakened, Europe is rearming like never before and the very nature of modern war has been redefined. Our correspondents take stock and consider what kind of peace is even possible.
Guests and host:
- Edward Carr, deputy editor
- Oliver Carroll, Ukraine correspondent
- Shashank Joshi, defence editor
- Jason Palmer, co-host of “The Intelligence”
Topics covered:
- war in Ukraine, Russia, defence, diplomacy
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Transcript
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| 0:00.0 | The Economist. |
| 0:10.1 | Hello and welcome to the intelligence from The Economist. |
| 0:13.3 | I'm your host, Jason Palmer. |
| 0:15.3 | Every weekday, we provide a fresh perspective on the events shaping your world. |
| 0:23.6 | Today, on A grim anniversary, we look back on how war in one country has changed the world far beyond its borders. |
| 0:31.6 | ...the world far beyond its borders. Four years ago today, all across Ukraine, people woke up to this. |
| 0:46.3 | In short order, millions of Ukrainians had fled. The biggest displacement of people in Europe since the Second World War. |
| 0:59.0 | Those who stayed and those who have since returned are now facing the harshest winter since the war began, |
| 1:05.0 | often and unpredictably without water or power or heat. |
| 1:10.0 | Many Ukrainians, of course, have made new lives elsewhere. |
| 1:13.6 | As all Ukrainians, I plan to go back to home, but the life |
| 1:17.6 | took a different. |
| 1:19.6 | Irina Kushnir fled to Istanbul in 2022 and says she always planned to return to her eastern home in Harkiv. Four years later, she says, life has turned out differently. |
| 1:31.3 | Her daughter stayed in Ukraine. |
| 1:33.3 | She says she's proud of that, that it's important that young people stay, |
| 1:38.3 | because they are the future. |
| 1:40.3 | The war has done far more than tear apart Ukrainian families. |
| 1:45.0 | It's ripped at the global security order, as American aid in particular has proved so fickle. |
| 1:51.0 | War on Europe's doorstep has the EU working to secure its own defense like never before. |
| 1:57.0 | And it's changed what that security looks like. Less tanks and jets, more drones in hybrid warfare. |
| 2:05.3 | To talk through all of this, I'm joined in London by Edward Carr, our deputy editor, and Shishong |
| 2:10.1 | Josie, our defense editor, and Oliver Carroll, our Ukraine correspondent who's in Kiev. |
... |
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