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Death, Sex & Money

A War Photographer on the Limits of Bearing Witness

Death, Sex & Money

Slate Podcasts

Business, Health & Fitness, Society & Culture, Careers, Relationships, Sexuality

4.67.6K Ratings

🗓️ 7 October 2025

⏱️ 60 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

When Peter van Agtmael went to Iraq in 2006 to embed with the U.S. military, he was 24 years old and confident that his pictures could help end an unjust war. Two decades later, after documenting combat deaths overseas and then turning his camera lens on America, he's learned the limits of what photography can do. In this episode, Peter talks about the emotional toll of bearing witness to violence, the fraught ethics of choosing a subject, and how he ended up in a legal battle with Ye over an image. Peter’s book is called “Look at the U.S.A.: A Diary of War and Home,“ and he has a show at the Corcoran School of the Arts and Design until January 25th. You can see his 2015 KKK wedding photo here.  Death, Sex & Money is now produced by Slate! To support us and our colleagues, please sign up for our membership program, Slate Plus! Members get ad-free podcasts, bonus content on lots of Slate shows, and full access to all the articles on Slate.com. Sign up today at slate.com/dsmplus. And if you’re new to the show, welcome. We’re so glad you’re here. Find us and follow us on Instagram and you can find Anna’s newsletter at annasale.substack.com. Our new email address, where you can reach us with voice memos, pep talks, questions, critiques, is [email protected]. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Transcript

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0:00.0

When I started college in the late 1990s, a book that got referenced a lot in political history lectures was called The End of History.

0:09.4

The idea was, after the bloody wars of the 20th century, Western liberal democracy was triumphant.

0:17.0

Fascism and communism were historical relics over.

0:22.7

Seems quaint 25 years later, with war in Europe, devastation in Gaza, and fragile and mistrustful talks between Israel and Palestine, and in the U.S., political assassinations and National Guard troops on American streets.

0:41.0

Photojournalist Peter von Ackmall has chronicled all of this, both in war zones and in American

0:47.8

communities and followed what happened after. He was drawn early to stories of war by his grandfather, a World War II veteran,

0:57.0

who taught him about America's power to make the world better by using force for good.

1:03.0

When Peter started taking photographs at war, he saw its horrors up close and believed that

1:09.4

taking the right picture would help end conflicts.

1:13.2

But after working in war zones over two decades, he started to have his doubts.

1:18.3

His 2024 book of photography is called Look at the USA, a diary of war and home.

1:26.4

It includes photos of American missions in Iraq and Afghanistan,

1:30.6

and how those assignments overseas

1:32.7

change the sorts of stories that Peter wanted to tell.

1:36.9

He wanted to follow how disenfranchisement and desperation

1:39.9

can lead to violence and radicalization, including in the U.S.

1:45.0

He took pictures of police brutality, protest.

1:48.5

He was at the Capitol on January 6th, and his work has asked viewers to engage with other darkly American subjects.

1:56.7

In 2015, he took photos of active KKK members and documented their rituals like a cross-burning and a wedding.

2:05.4

One of those KKK photos was picked up by Ye, the rapper formerly known as Kanye West, as cover art from an upcoming album.

2:14.5

Peter says, without permission. We'll get to that story. How we use photos and what they say

2:22.0

is increasingly an issue relative to all of us with a phone. The photos and videos we take and

...

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