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The Ezra Klein Show

A Step-by-Step Guide to Becoming a Trump Enabler

The Ezra Klein Show

New York Times Opinion

Society & Culture, Government, News

4.611K Ratings

🗓️ 25 October 2022

⏱️ 66 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

​​“What would you do for your relevance?” the political journalist Mark Leibovich asks in his new book, “Thank You for Your Servitude: Donald Trump’s Washington and the Price of Submission.” “How badly did you want into the clubhouse, no matter how wretched it became inside?” For Leibovich, you can’t truly understand the current Republican Party without taking stock of the almost Shakespearean drama that unfolded during the Trump presidency — in which Republican after Republican bowed to the will of their ascendant party leader. Through his extensive — and often quite colorful — reporting with Trump’s inner circle of enablers, Leibovich tries to understand the motivations that fueled Trump’s takeover of the G.O.P. But this conversation isn’t only important in retrospect. With the Republican Party poised to possibly recapture at least one house of Congress in November, many of Trump’s core enablers could soon hold considerable political power. Who are they? What do they believe? How will they act if given power? We discuss why the stakes in 2022 midterms feel higher than ever, why the Republican Party has changed so profoundly since the days of Paul Ryan and Eric Cantor, how the governing structure of the G.O.P. fell apart as Trump rose in influence, the many reasons politicians from Lindsey Graham to Elise Stefanik converted from Trump skeptics to staunch Trump defenders, the political motivations of Kevin McCarthy — who may become the next speaker of the House — and how he might wield power, how the persistence of Trumpism could profoundly alter American democracy, why Leibovich believes figures like J.D. Vance prostrated themselves to a man who insulted them, what options Democrats have for countering election denialism and more. Mentioned: “Donald Trump Is Not Going Anywhere” by Mark Leibovich Book recommendations: Why We Did It by Tim Miller Confidence Man by Maggie Haberman NSFW by Isabel Kaplan Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at [email protected]. You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast, and you can find Ezra on Twitter @ezraklein. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs. “The Ezra Klein Show” is produced by Emefa Agawu, Annie Galvin, Jeff Geld and Rogé Karma. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris, Mary Marge Locker and Kate Sinclair. Original music by Isaac Jones. Mixing by Jeff Geld, Sonia Herrero and Isaac Jones. Audience strategy by Shannon Busta. Special thanks to Kristin Lin and Kristina Samulewski.

Transcript

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0:00.0

I'm Ezra Klein. This is the Ezra Conchell.

0:24.0

America has a two-party system. And if you go by the language we use, we've had the same

0:29.6

two-party system since the mid-1800s. Republicans and Democrats, that is the essential,

0:36.0

unchanging competition, the Define's American politics. But the stability of that language

0:41.6

obscures really big upheavals in what those parties are. Democrats were once the party

0:47.0

of racist hierarchy. Later, they became the party of civil rights in Barack Obama. Republicans

0:52.0

were once the party of Abraham Lincoln. Later, they became the party of reaction and Jesse

0:56.4

Helms. But you don't just have to look on the timescale of centuries. This, what we

1:02.5

are in right now, has been an era of profound party change. The Republican Party of George

1:07.9

W. Bush is not the Republican Party of Donald Trump. Hell, the Republican Party of Paul Ryan,

1:13.0

which existed during the Republican Party of Donald Trump, is not the Republican Party

1:16.9

of Donald Trump. If Republicans win in 2022, and even more so in 2024, the Republican Party

1:24.7

that will take power then will be different than the one that took power in 2017. That

1:30.4

was a party in uneasy coalition with Donald Trump and the forces he represented and channeled.

1:36.6

Now Donald Trump is the establishment of the Republican Party. He is its power broker.

1:41.5

He is its center. Power in the party flows from his favor. If many Republicans, I think

1:47.4

probably most elected Republicans in 2017 wanted to use Donald Trump to their ends in 2022,

1:54.8

they are eager to be used by him for his ends. What does it mean for that party to win power?

2:00.0

What even is that party? This year, Mark LeBavitch, a staff writer at the Atlantic, published

2:05.6

a unique book on the Trump era. It's one that hit a side of it that has been the most

2:11.5

fascinating to me personally. Thank you for your servitude, his book, isn't about Donald

2:16.7

Trump. It is about the Republicans who bent the knee to him. It is about why they did it

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