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The Gray Area with Sean Illing

A skeptic considers the case for God

The Gray Area with Sean Illing

Vox Media Podcast Network

News Commentary, Philosophy, Politics, Society & Culture, News

4.511.1K Ratings

🗓️ 13 July 2026

⏱️ 57 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

Sean talks with writer Liz Bruenig about faith, doubt, and the experience of believing in God in a modern, skeptical age. They discuss religious experience, the limits of science, the appeal of cynicism, Dostoevsky, beauty, mystery, and whether belief is ultimately a choice. They also explore why religion persists and whether living with uncertainty is itself a form of faith. Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling) Guest: Elizabeth Bruenig (@ebruenig) We would love to hear from you. To tell us what you thought of this episode, email us at thegrayarea@vox.com or leave us a voicemail at 1-800-214-5749. Your comments and questions help us make a better show. And you can watch new episodes of The Gray Area on YouTube. New episodes drop every Monday and Friday. Listen to The Gray Area ad-free by becoming a Vox Member: vox.com/members. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Transcript

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0:00.0

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1:21.2

Most arguments about God's existence get stuck in the same place. One side says, show me the evidence.

1:29.3

The other side says, you're asking for the wrong kind of evidence.

1:33.3

The atheist treats God like a hypothesis about the world, something to be tested, verified, or dismissed.

1:42.3

But the most interesting believers are talking about a different kind of thing.

...

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