A rugby legend. A dementia diagnosis. And the game that failed him - The Sunday Story
The Story
The Times
3.9 • 1.6K Ratings
🗓️ 3 May 2026
⏱️ 38 minutes
🧾️ Download transcript
Summary
At his peak, Carl Hayman was widely regarded as the world's best tighthead prop. Then, in 2021, at just 41, he was diagnosed with early-onset dementia and probable CTE, a disease he believes was caused by the sport he loves, and one that has torn his life apart. In this intimate and devastating interview with David Walsh, Carl describes what happened, what he’s doing for the players who come after him, and what concussion means for rugby’s future.
The final part of a two-part special investigation into the crisis facing this global game. You can listen to part one here.
This podcast was brought to you thanks to the support of readers of The Times and The Sunday Times. Subscribe today: http://thetimes.com/thestory
Guest: Carl Hayman
Host: David Walsh, chief sports writer, The Sunday Times
Producer: Sophie McNulty
We want to hear from you - email: thestory@thetimes.com
Read more: Two best friends, two suicides. How did rugby let this happen?
Further listening: Can rugby survive its head injury problem?
Photo: Getty Images.
This podcast was brought to you thanks to subscribers of The Times and The Sunday Times. To enjoy unlimited digital access to all our journalism subscribe here.
Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
Transcript
Click on a timestamp to play from that location
| 0:00.0 | From The Times and the Sunday Times, this is the story. I'm David Walsh. |
| 0:11.0 | Average day for me, I'm up pretty early, around about five-ish. I normally go up to the farm, |
| 0:23.0 | where the cows will be being milked. |
| 0:29.8 | I'm sitting in a podcast studio in New Plymouth on New Zealand's North Island, |
| 0:33.6 | meeting a rugby legend, the Carl Heyman. |
| 0:39.3 | For this week I was trimming a few tails of the cows because they tend to drop a drop a bit of stuff on their tails and it needs cleaning up from time to time and then I'm |
| 0:43.3 | just basically a farm hand. |
| 0:45.3 | Today Carl lives on a farm in a place called Opanake. |
| 0:49.3 | His life looks very different to what it once was. |
| 0:52.3 | I helped the farmer, help them with chores in the morning. |
| 0:56.0 | Right. |
| 0:57.0 | Then I'll basically come home. |
| 0:59.0 | Depending how I'm feeling, then I normally would go back up there and just do odd jobs. |
| 1:07.0 | I'm basically like a farm genitor. |
| 1:15.3 | For those who aren't rugby fans, |
| 1:21.1 | Carl Haman was the best tighthead prop in the world for about 15 years. |
| 1:24.2 | At his peak, he was a colossus, |
| 1:27.4 | one of the most powerful athletes in the game, tall, strong, a truly commanding |
| 1:30.8 | presence on the field. He retired in 2015 and the road since hasn't been easy. |
| 1:38.3 | Like I find extremely difficult to work a full-time job now. |
| 1:44.5 | Like if someone said tomorrow, you need to go and work. |
| 1:47.7 | In this full-time, like, I have a lot of doubt |
... |
Please login to see the full transcript.
Disclaimer: The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from The Times, and are the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Tapesearch.
Generated transcripts are the property of The Times and are distributed freely under the Fair Use doctrine. Transcripts generated by Tapesearch are not guaranteed to be accurate.
Copyright © Tapesearch 2026.