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Science Delivers.com.

This is fresh air. I'm Terry Gross.

The most powerful person in the Trump administration, next to the

president, is someone you may never have heard of or seen. That is until yesterday, when a long

article about her was published on the Vanity Fair website. And it surprised a lot of people because

behind the scenes is where she typically wants to be.

Now she's all over the news. She's Susie Wiles, President Donald Trump's White House Chief of Staff,

and the first woman ever to serve as a presidential chief of staff. The article was written by

my guest, Vanity Fair writer Chris Whipple, who managed to do 11

interviews with her over the past year. He'll tell us about what she had to say about subjects

ranging from why she says Trump has an alcoholic's personality, even though he's not a drinker,

the deal she made with Trump that he'd end his revenge tour in 90 days. He didn't. Her take on several

members of the cabinet, including Vice President Chay DeVance, who she says has been a conspiracy theorist

for 10 years, and how she justifies U.S. strikes on Venezuelan boats that have so far killed 87 people.

Whipple's piece titled Eye of the Hurricane will be published in the magazine's

winter issue in January.

Whipple is the author of the books Uncharted, how Trump beat Biden, Harris, and the odds

in the wildest campaign in history, and the gatekeepers about White House Chiefs of Staff.

...