You're listening to the Naval Podcast.

This is NIVI, his regular co-host.

Today we're going to be talking about vibe coding.

This episode is presented by AngelList, a company Naval and I started a while back at this point.

I'll tell you a little bit more about it later.

Let me tee up the conversation with a tweet from Naval from March 23rd.

AI coding agents can now deliver one shot

custom app straight to your phone. It's the beginning of the end for the iPhone's dominance. Do you

want to talk about what you're building and how you're distributing it? Well, yeah, let me talk about

vibe coding and how I got into it. So around December of 2025, the coding agents in AI hit an inflection point with the release

of Claude Opus 4.5. And people started using it. We're like, wow, this is an agent that

stays on track, can build apps soup to nuts, can solve thorny problems, and really feels like

having a junior programmer at your disposal

who's fast, essentially free, and ready to please. That was an inflection point, and I was

reading all the hype on Twitter, but this time it felt real. And I've tried the coding agents in the

past with some mixed results, but this time I really got into it. And I haven't seriously

coded in decades.

I mean, I have a computer science degree. I understand computer architecture, networking,

a little bit of chips, algorithms, et cetera. But I haven't seriously coded in a long time.

And the activation energy to writing code is really high. You have to like hook up all these

different services to each other, everything from GitHub to

maybe some backend, you're doing Versel or Firebase or railway or whatever, and just lots of

...