This episode is brought to you by Meta for Work.

It's not just sci-fi anymore.

Virtual and mixed reality are transforming how business works.

Architects can use mixed reality to walk through buildings that aren't even built yet.

People from around the world can meet up in more

immersive ways, working shoulder to shoulder in virtual spaces to get real work done.

And all sorts of professionals are getting hands-on training and safer, more cost-effective

virtual environments.

Meta for work.

Work smarter, closer, safer, together.

Visit for work.

Meta.com to learn more.

This is open to debate. I'm John Donvent. Hi everybody. In this episode we're stepping

back from doing a debate proper to have a conversation about what lies at the heart of any debate which is disagreement. I think we're all getting the sense that

while it is natural and even necessary that humans will disagree in recent years the degree

and manner of how we disagree seems to be getting out of hand and the polarization resulting has really become ugly and destructive and right now we're really in the midst of a discouraging example of this phenomenon in the discourse happening over who is right

and who is wrong in the war between Israel and Hamas. As it happens I earlier recorded a

conversation with somebody who is working hard to improve the ways we disagree with each other.

Monica Guzman wrote a book called, I never thought of it that way, how to have fearlessly curious

conversations in dangerously divided times.

And in it, she lays out how we can discuss our opposing views without having to hate each

other.

...