Good morning. Good afternoon. Good evening, wherever you are. And welcome to the politics guys with your host, Jay Carson and Michael Baranowski.

Welcome to the politics guys. I'm Michael Baranowski, a political scientist at Northern Kentucky

University. Before we go to my interview with Pat Rosentheel from the National Popular Vote Compact,

I wanted to mention that while Pat and I had what I think was a great conversation, we had it

on a decidedly wonky internet connection. I've done my best to edit out the dropouts in the conversation

as seamlessly as possible, but there are still some places where I couldn't make the cuts perfect.

My apologies for that, but even with the less than ideal audio quality, I think you'll enjoy

this conversation. My guest today is Patrick Rosenziel from National Popular Vote,

an organization working to ensure that the winner of the national popular vote for the presidency

actually becomes president, something that hasn't actually happened in two of the last five

presidential elections. Mr. Rosensteele, welcome to the show. I'm grateful to be here. Thanks for reaching out.

You know, most people, I think, believe that changing our electoral college system would

require a constitutional amendment, something that is just about impossible to do, really.

But your organization has actually found a way around this.

And can you explain what that is and how it would

change, how presidents are elected into the United States? Yeah, sure. I'm not sure that I feel like

we found a way around it. I think we found the constitutionally appropriate route to make the change

or to reform the current system. So, you know, Article 2, Section 1 of the Constitution

leaves it to the various state legislatures to determine how they're going to award electors.

It says, each state shall appoint in such manner as the legislature thereof may direct a number

of electors. States also have a power that's called the power to create interstate

compacts in Article 1, Section 10, which is the power for states to form agreements amongst

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