The New York Times actually continues to wrestle with the fact is a big print business that's declining.

People like internet people sort of forget that that's declining. People like internet people sort of forget that

that's still this huge albatross around a lot of journalism is that print is a

terrible business getting worse every year and coming from a place where a local newspaper was just one of the great

businesses in the world. It was a local monopoly where if somebody wanted to sell a

mattress in Akron, Ohio, the local paper got 10% of that purchase price

for advertising. Basically every local retail The local

retail transaction built a huge tower next to City Hall, hired investigative

reporters, everybody had lobster for lunch, you know, I mean it was a great business and it's very hard to see how

that ever returns. Hello and welcome to Wies is happening with me your host Chris Hayes.

I'm going to be 45 years old when you listen to this and I guess I would say I started in journalism

when I was like 22 probably right out of college I started freelancing for an alternative

weekly in Chicago called a Chicago reader and was a writer for years and during that

entire time the only constant in media has been changed it's been one of the sort of most tumultuous

periods, right? Like the dawn of the internet and then blogs and online news

sites and then the rise of social media.

And through this all, there's been this like steady panic

that media was dying.

And this was particularly acute, sort of first

when the internet came out and gained popularity, first started eating into newspapers really

acutely after 2009 in a great financial crisis where the financial pressures took anything

that wasn't thriving and just pushed it under. And now in the last year, I would say it's

...