Are mathematical concepts actually real?

I think that the concepts exist around us, whether or not we think about them.

But what we invent is a way to think about them.

It's Tuesday, October 17th, but just like every day, today is Science Friday.

I'm SciFRI producer Kathleen Davis.

Math is a subject that we all learn in school, but a lot of people don't like math,

and they think they aren't good at it.

I have terrible memories of being forced to memorize multiplication tables and long equations

and just not getting it.

And it makes me wonder if math is based on a lot of abstract concepts, how do we know that

it's even real?

Mathematician Eugenia Chang wrote a whole book about this.

She joins Ira Flato to talk about it. Dr. Eugenia Chang wrote a whole book about this. She joins Ira Flato to talk about it.

Dr. Eugenia Chang, mathematician and author of, is math real? How simple questions lead us to mathematics deepest truths. She's joining me now from Chicago. Welcome back to Science Friday.

Thank you so much. It's great to be back. That's a weird question to ask. Is math real? Why do you even ask that question? Well, I've heard so many other people ask it and feel flummoxed by it. And often they're asking it because they really doubt whether it's real. And it's a way of saying, well, I don't think it's real. So why do I need to study it? And I think what's really coming out is many people's frustration with being forced to learn things that seem pointless at school. And so it comes out in this frustrated question. Well, is it even real? Right, right. Well, our listeners, I'm sure, are wondering that, and they can call in and ask their questions. They've always wanted to ask about math, and you know what? No one will know that they don't know anything. Well, I'm sure they know something, but I'm sure the question about math. Our number 844-724-8255. 844-Sy-Tock,724-8255, or you can tweet us at SciFri.

I mean, if math wasn't real, how could we be using it to explain our world, right?

The laws of physics, the shape of the universe, how we get to the grocery store, so it must be real.

Well, I think that the other question you posed is really, really on the nose,

which is what does real mean anyway? And I think that the thing is that even if math isn't real,

it can still help us with real things. And what I say at the end of the book, not to give it

away the ending, spoiler alert, is that actually, maybe, as they say, that's a feature, not a bug, that the fact that it's made up is part of where its power comes from.

And I think that it's a bit like fiction. I love reading fiction. I know that some people don't like reading fiction and they only want to read nonfiction, but I love reading fiction.

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