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Hello this is Victor Hanson on the Victor Hanson podcast our usual host Jack Fowler and

Sammy Wink are not here and I'm going solo with an old friend of mine who and a role reversal

who used to host the classicist for the Hoover Institution Troy Sinek is now a guest of the

former ho his former client let's say and we're so happy to have Troy he's the author most recently

of he's written a lot of articles and almost all the major journals and he's done so much in his

life he's been as you probably remember he was a speech writer for George W Bush he's been in

journalism public policy I got to know Troy as I said he wasn't just my podcast that he hosted

he did a number of podcasts and public for the Hoover Institution and I also have a connection

my daughter or Susanna went to Pepperdine University's public policy program master's

greatest Troy did he's the co-founder of Kite and Key what we're going to talk about but right now

he's with us and we're going to as an intro to this new and wonderful book a man of iron the

turbulent life an improbable presidency of Robert Cleveland I want to introduce everybody to

Troy Sinek and we'll get like to Kite and Key Troy. Yep first of all thank you for having me Victor

it is a little strange to be on this side of the microphone. I don't know how well I'm going to be

able to sustain it if 20 minutes in I just start asking you questions about Thucydides that's just

...