I'm Michael Binion, sitting in for Hugo Rifkin, and we're going to be unpacking the politics of the day and the stuff that's even more important than politics.

Joining me here are two of the finest minds from the Times and the Sunday Times.

Seb Payne, welcome Seb and Charlotte Ivers.

Hello, Charlotte.

Hello, that's a very generous introduction.

I think there's no hope for us all if that's true, but we'll try our best.

Well, I'm sure it will be true, and I'm sure we get a benefit from your wisdom.

Well, let's start off with Stama and Trump.

So Kirstarmer will be meeting Donald Trump

at his Turnberry golf course in Scotland today, and he's going to urge the US President to put

more pressure on Israel over Gaza. Seb, do you think that Trump will listen to Stama?

Whether he does or not, and I think the more likelihood is that he won't,

because Donald Trump doesn't really listen to anyone when it comes to these matters.

I do think it's the right thing for Kirstama to be doing at this particular juncture.

It feels like over the last week or two, and I've been watching this from afar,

having been on holiday and not engaged in the news as I normally am,

that we're coming to a point where there's going to have been international reckoning

with what's happening in Gaza, and there was a very good editorial in the Times that we've run on Saturday

about this, about reaching a point of international condemnation.

But as you know, Michael, having followed this much more sedulously than I have over the years,

it's really all about America, isn't it?

Because they are the country that Israel and Trump is the leader that Benjamin Netanyar,

...