Welcome back to Damages, I'm Amy Westervalt.

Last episode we heard about Ecuador's constitutional amendment to include rights of nature, and

a recent case that pitted the cloud forest of Los Seydros against a mining company and

the government officials that permitted mining in that forest.

Last December, the court of constitutional recognized the administration of the rights of nature

of the forest that protect the Cedras.

Los Seydros won, and today we're going to get into a lot more detail about what that ruling

means and why it was so important not just in Ecuador, but around the world.

Joining me for that discussion today are Melissa Trautman and Joshua Probanaque, the co-founders

of Public Herald, an independent investigative journalism organization.

Melissa's based in Pennsylvania, Josh is in Ohio, and for years they uncovered lots of dirty

secrets about fracking in those states.

That work actually led them to rights of nature.

There's been a lot of activity to incorporate rights of nature in both Ohio and Pennsylvania,

mostly as a response to industrial pollution of various kinds.

Once they started digging into the issue, Melissa and Josh were hooked, and they eventually

made a documentary called Invisible Hand.

That came out in 2020 and is an excellent way into the topic for anyone who is interested

in learning more about it.

I caught up with them shortly after the Los Seydros ruling came out to get their take

on it.

Conversations coming up right after this quick break.

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