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Quillette Podcast

A Gay Author’s Escape from Cults, Drugs, Queer Radicalism, and ‘Scrupulosity’

Quillette Podcast

Quillette

Politics, Science, Society & Culture, News, News Commentary

4.4929 Ratings

🗓️ 30 November 2025

⏱️ 46 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

Quillette podcast host Jonathan Kay speaks with writer Ben Appel about his new memoir, Cis White Gay: The Making of a Gender Heretic Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Transcript

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0:00.0

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0:22.8

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0:31.6

Welcome to the Quillette podcast, hosted on alternate weeks by me, Jonathan Kay, and by Iona Italia. Quillette is where

0:40.5

Freethought lives. We are an independent grassroots platform for heterodox ideas and fearless

0:46.0

commentary. You are about to hear a free preview of this week's episode. To hear the full episode,

0:52.4

and to get access to all our podcasts and articles,

0:56.1

visit us at quillette.com and click the subscribe button. This week, we're going to dive back

1:02.4

into the culture war over gender, which, as my guest will explain, also manifests itself as a

1:09.2

civil war within the LGB&T communities.

1:12.6

That guest, gay writer Ben Appel, grew up in a Maryland-based Christian cult known as Lamb of God,

1:19.6

in which he was taught that homosexual acts and even mere homosexual thoughts were a pathway to hell.

1:26.6

In time, Ben developed an OCD-like fixation on the rituals of prayer, spending endless

1:32.9

hours begging God for forgiveness, a centuries-old Christian reflex known as scrupulosity.

1:39.9

Ironically, Ben's mental health problems only got worse after his family moved away from the Lamb of God cult, when Ben was 12 years old.

1:48.2

Suddenly, he was thrown into a large public school environment that his isolated Christian upbringing had never prepared him for.

1:55.8

In response to bullying from homophobic classmates, Ben became consumed with shame and crippling anxiety,

2:03.4

causing him to become even more compulsive about his prayer rituals.

2:07.5

Eventually, he self-medicated with alcohol and drugs, dropped out of college, and fell into

2:12.9

a spiral of addiction, psychosis, and suicidal ideation.

2:17.4

Once in his 20s, Ben went clean with the help

2:19.9

of a 12-step program and became more comfortable with his sexuality. When gay marriage was on the

2:25.4

Maryland ballot in the 2012 election, he became a gay rights activist and envisioned a career in the field.

...

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