From the ACLU, this is at Liberty.

I'm Emerson Sykes, a staff attorney here at the ACLU and your host.

This week, we're replaying an interview from earlier this year with Paul Butler, a scholar,

former prosecutor, and the author of Chokehold, policing black men.

When we first spoke with Paul, his book had been banned in Arizona prisons.

After we recorded the interview, thanks to the intervention of the ACLU, Arizona lifted its

band and incarcerated people in Arizona can now read Chokehold

and benefit from its insightful analysis of our mass incarceration problem. Full disclosure,

I worked on the letter that forced Arizona to lift the ban. Hope you enjoy the interview.

Today's guest is Professor Paul Butler, the author of Chokehold, Policing Black Men,

which he describes as a renegade former prosecutor's radical thoughts on how to disrupt the system.

Professor Butler, who teaches at Georgetown Law, is also the author of Let's Get Free, a hip-hop theory of justice.

Through his books, his scholarship, and his activism,

Professor Butler is committed to addressing the deep problems in our criminal justice system

in ways that are accessible and compelling to the people who bear the brunt of the system's oppression.

He is both a pragmatist and a revolutionary, and we're lucky to have him join us today.

We'll discuss his career as a prosecutor, scholar, and public thinker,

as well as how to break free of the systemic chokehold that is American policing.

Professor Butler, thanks very much for taking the time to speak with us.

Welcome to the podcast.

Hey, Emerson, it's great to be here.

So the chokehold became famous, or infamous, I should say,

...